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the hubert ubert breakdown post
alternate title: i'm a JOKE
there will be discussion of pre- and post-timeskip happenings, as well as support conversations. post-timeskip and support conversation talk will be spoiler marked.
OKAY SO. hubert/ashe. i know you might be thinking "nil what the fuck" and you know what, that's entirely valid, but they have an incredible potential for slowburn and i think that's neat.
i'll probably come back to this at a later point once i think more about hubert's side of things because disclaimer: this stream of consciousness post is going to be a lot from ashe's side of things, since i roleplay him and therefore think about him and his role in things a lot more.
so first off: ashe's relationship to faerghus. because in order for this ship to work in a non star-crossed lovers, destined to meet on opposite ends of the battlefield and never be happy together sort of way, ashe needs to defect and join the black eagles/adrestia. it's definitely not an easy choice for him to make - after all, he dreams of being a knight, and faerghus is all about chivalry and duty.
but a big part of ashe's character is that he's young, and he's still trying to figure himself out. take his b support with catherine, for example: [highlight for spoilers]ashe learns from their c support that catherine turned over his brother christophe for execution by the church and that his involvement in the tragedy of duscur was completely fabricated. their b support shows him grappling with his emotions and even though he's able to get his anger out in a physical way with catherine goading him, he's still at a loss as to how to how to view her from there on. if the b support is gotten before the timeskip, it can take ashe five years to finally come to an answer. this theme is also touched upon in his supports with gilbert: [highlight for spoilers] while the supports reveal a lot about gilbert, they also show how ashe, even after the five years have passed and he's come closer to his dream as a knight, is still not sure what his goals are. ashe doesn't have an answer to gilbert's question of what he, as a knight, wants to protect, until gilbert gives his insight into lonato. it's only then that ashe realizes it - "I don't know why I couldn't see it. I'm Lonato's son. His pride and his wishes are my inheritance. Those are what I should protect."
this is important to remember because of the early game events with lonato and the western church. there aren't many chapters before lonato's rebellion, but it's still clear that the events shake ashe to the core. not only does he question himself, if he takes part in the battle ("Why… why did this happen? Lonato was always such a kind man… Everyone in the village was… was so nice to me. And I… I killed them. I killed them all! I had to, I know I had to… I know that! But still… what does that make me?"), it's fair to say that he loses faith in the church after learning that the western church somehow manipulated lonato (or, at least, that's how he sees it). while he doesn't take as bold or loud of an anti-church (or anti-crest) stance as some other characters, he talks about in one of the first free times (i can't remember which month at the moment) how he wants to be a knight like lonato. if a knight like lonato started a rebellion against the central church, and the western church used lonato to further their own plot and got civilians killed in the process, then shouldn't he also rebel against the church?
(i also want to note here his brief involvement in verdant wind/silver snow: [highlight for spoilers]he shows up as an enemy unit on the ambush at ailell. two lines he says in particular are particularly important to the discussion here. first, which happens automatically: "Just as I thought - the professor's army. But it's too late to back out now. In Lonato's place, I have to do my duty." second, when you fight him with anyone besides byleth: "Forgive me... But as Lonato's son, I have a duty!" gaspard is a part of the kingdom that falls under imperial control during the war - his sense of duty (and potential resentment of the church) is so strong that he betrays his former classmates. he is guided by his family, both in honoring christophe and lonato to the best of his abilities and doing what he can to keep his siblings safe (and since this happens in silver snow but not crimson flower, it means he never betrays hubert lmao) )
so, in conclusion for this part of the post: i believe it is entirely plausible for ashe to end up allied with the empire and share at least some ideals with edelgard. he doesn't have a stake in the crest debate, given that he doesn't have a crest and, as far as we know, neither lonato nor christophe did, but the abolition of the church rings with him.
(a side note: not to get byleth-centric here on this post that has nothing to do with them, but i do think they play a role in this. considering that ashe is alone in the chapel for two months after lonato's death, and in the blue lions route ashe is quick to apologize for "bothering" dimitri and byleth with his grief and leave after the battle, it might be sad but not too far-fetched to think that the support that byleth shows him in that time that his classmates potentially don't helps him leave the blue lions. he's able to lean on the professor in a way that he doesn't allow himself to with his classmates, which influences his later decisions, especially when shit really starts hitting the fan.
i have two takes on when ashe could join: one would defy canon and be sometime after byleth formally defects from the church, maybe even in the five year period, because between the manifesto and the aftermath of the attack on garreg mach, specifically the stance faerghus takes in the war against the empire in crimson flower, i think those would be the final straws for ashe. sticking with canon, though, i think the most natural place for ashe to join would be either during the lonato mission or immediately after the western church suppression.)
next part: ashe with hubert specifically. the beginning of their relationship would be interesting, because i think ashe, similar to bernadetta, would be intimidated by (and a little afraid of) hubert. not to the same degree as her, but he clearly is spooked by marianne and hubert's at least twenty times creepier than she is. but i don't think hubert would be nearly as kind ("""kind""") with ashe as he is with bernadetta, especially if ashe joins in my canon-defying point. ashe has a lot to prove to hubert and hubert's not going to make it easy for him. but while ashe understandably would feel remorse over having to face his former classmates on the battlefield and would rather not fight them himself, his sense of duty keeps him going strong and lets him see things through to the end.
([EDIT] an interesting point that i didn't realize at the time of writing this is what he does during the five year timeskip. in crimson flower, [highlight for spoilers]he spends the entire five year period as a general in the imperial army. in the other routes, [highlight for spoilers] there's a period of time (a year in azure moon, and up until his potential recruitment in ailell in verdant wind/silver snow) where he serves house rowe, who defected to the empire. regardless of his route, he spends at least a year of the war on the empire's side. )
besides ashe's good nature inevitably wearing down hubert and his loyalty and devotion proving he can be trusted, i feel ashe's background as a thief would pique hubert's interest. honestly, i could see hubert making use of ashe's talents for the benefit of the empire - and while ashe feels guilty for that part of his past, picking locks and sneaking around is something he knows how to do, and well. and it's not like hubert's asking him to rob innocent people blind or anything. it shows hubert trusts him. (and then cue the inevitable "ashe doesn't come back as soon as hubert expects from one of these missions and while he's not worried, he's definitely not worried and he already has a back-up plan because that's how he is, he's definitely pacing a little waiting for ashe's return", lmao)
because ashe is a rather honest and forthright person, he would meet hubert's suspicion with the information he's looking for. the letters he's sending out? oh, those are to his brother and sister! you can read them, if you want to be sure. he's never told you about them, has he? where he was last night? in the library! it's been a while since he's read loog and the maiden of wind - do you know of that legend? it's very well known in faerghus. etc etc. and in time, hubert learns that yes, he can trust this ally of theirs. this kid doesn't have a mean bone in his body.
i'm running out of steam so i'm going to wrap this up with some bullet points and maybe i'll edit this with more in the future:
- they both like books (at least to some degree), and interestingly enough there is some intersection between ashe and hubert here. a good number of the knight books that ashe reads are based on historical figures, while one of hubert's favorite gifts is The History of Fodlan book. now imagine them reading together and while ashe takes it as a chance to gush about knights he admires, hubert makes mental notes of the strategies of old.
- they share two liked dishes (spicy fish and turnip stew and sweet and salty whitefish saute) and while ashe loves to cook, hubert expresses "little interest in food". hubert also mentions, if you make him cook, that he hasn't mastered seasoning, which is specifically what ashe helps mercedes grasp in his supports with her.
- they have a good ol' height difference of 188cm vs 164cm (pre-timeskip)/174 cm (post-timeskip). chefs kiss
that's it for now thanks for coming to my ted talk
there will be discussion of pre- and post-timeskip happenings, as well as support conversations. post-timeskip and support conversation talk will be spoiler marked.
OKAY SO. hubert/ashe. i know you might be thinking "nil what the fuck" and you know what, that's entirely valid, but they have an incredible potential for slowburn and i think that's neat.
i'll probably come back to this at a later point once i think more about hubert's side of things because disclaimer: this stream of consciousness post is going to be a lot from ashe's side of things, since i roleplay him and therefore think about him and his role in things a lot more.
so first off: ashe's relationship to faerghus. because in order for this ship to work in a non star-crossed lovers, destined to meet on opposite ends of the battlefield and never be happy together sort of way, ashe needs to defect and join the black eagles/adrestia. it's definitely not an easy choice for him to make - after all, he dreams of being a knight, and faerghus is all about chivalry and duty.
but a big part of ashe's character is that he's young, and he's still trying to figure himself out. take his b support with catherine, for example: [highlight for spoilers]
this is important to remember because of the early game events with lonato and the western church. there aren't many chapters before lonato's rebellion, but it's still clear that the events shake ashe to the core. not only does he question himself, if he takes part in the battle ("Why… why did this happen? Lonato was always such a kind man… Everyone in the village was… was so nice to me. And I… I killed them. I killed them all! I had to, I know I had to… I know that! But still… what does that make me?"), it's fair to say that he loses faith in the church after learning that the western church somehow manipulated lonato (or, at least, that's how he sees it). while he doesn't take as bold or loud of an anti-church (or anti-crest) stance as some other characters, he talks about in one of the first free times (i can't remember which month at the moment) how he wants to be a knight like lonato. if a knight like lonato started a rebellion against the central church, and the western church used lonato to further their own plot and got civilians killed in the process, then shouldn't he also rebel against the church?
(i also want to note here his brief involvement in verdant wind/silver snow: [highlight for spoilers]
so, in conclusion for this part of the post: i believe it is entirely plausible for ashe to end up allied with the empire and share at least some ideals with edelgard. he doesn't have a stake in the crest debate, given that he doesn't have a crest and, as far as we know, neither lonato nor christophe did, but the abolition of the church rings with him.
(a side note: not to get byleth-centric here on this post that has nothing to do with them, but i do think they play a role in this. considering that ashe is alone in the chapel for two months after lonato's death, and in the blue lions route ashe is quick to apologize for "bothering" dimitri and byleth with his grief and leave after the battle, it might be sad but not too far-fetched to think that the support that byleth shows him in that time that his classmates potentially don't helps him leave the blue lions. he's able to lean on the professor in a way that he doesn't allow himself to with his classmates, which influences his later decisions, especially when shit really starts hitting the fan.
i have two takes on when ashe could join: one would defy canon and be sometime after byleth formally defects from the church, maybe even in the five year period, because between the manifesto and the aftermath of the attack on garreg mach, specifically the stance faerghus takes in the war against the empire in crimson flower, i think those would be the final straws for ashe. sticking with canon, though, i think the most natural place for ashe to join would be either during the lonato mission or immediately after the western church suppression.)
next part: ashe with hubert specifically. the beginning of their relationship would be interesting, because i think ashe, similar to bernadetta, would be intimidated by (and a little afraid of) hubert. not to the same degree as her, but he clearly is spooked by marianne and hubert's at least twenty times creepier than she is. but i don't think hubert would be nearly as kind ("""kind""") with ashe as he is with bernadetta, especially if ashe joins in my canon-defying point. ashe has a lot to prove to hubert and hubert's not going to make it easy for him. but while ashe understandably would feel remorse over having to face his former classmates on the battlefield and would rather not fight them himself, his sense of duty keeps him going strong and lets him see things through to the end.
([EDIT] an interesting point that i didn't realize at the time of writing this is what he does during the five year timeskip. in crimson flower, [highlight for spoilers]
besides ashe's good nature inevitably wearing down hubert and his loyalty and devotion proving he can be trusted, i feel ashe's background as a thief would pique hubert's interest. honestly, i could see hubert making use of ashe's talents for the benefit of the empire - and while ashe feels guilty for that part of his past, picking locks and sneaking around is something he knows how to do, and well. and it's not like hubert's asking him to rob innocent people blind or anything. it shows hubert trusts him. (and then cue the inevitable "ashe doesn't come back as soon as hubert expects from one of these missions and while he's not worried, he's definitely not worried and he already has a back-up plan because that's how he is, he's definitely pacing a little waiting for ashe's return", lmao)
because ashe is a rather honest and forthright person, he would meet hubert's suspicion with the information he's looking for. the letters he's sending out? oh, those are to his brother and sister! you can read them, if you want to be sure. he's never told you about them, has he? where he was last night? in the library! it's been a while since he's read loog and the maiden of wind - do you know of that legend? it's very well known in faerghus. etc etc. and in time, hubert learns that yes, he can trust this ally of theirs. this kid doesn't have a mean bone in his body.
i'm running out of steam so i'm going to wrap this up with some bullet points and maybe i'll edit this with more in the future:
- they both like books (at least to some degree), and interestingly enough there is some intersection between ashe and hubert here. a good number of the knight books that ashe reads are based on historical figures, while one of hubert's favorite gifts is The History of Fodlan book. now imagine them reading together and while ashe takes it as a chance to gush about knights he admires, hubert makes mental notes of the strategies of old.
- they share two liked dishes (spicy fish and turnip stew and sweet and salty whitefish saute) and while ashe loves to cook, hubert expresses "little interest in food". hubert also mentions, if you make him cook, that he hasn't mastered seasoning, which is specifically what ashe helps mercedes grasp in his supports with her.
- they have a good ol' height difference of 188cm vs 164cm (pre-timeskip)/174 cm (post-timeskip). chefs kiss
that's it for now thanks for coming to my ted talk